Derestricting motorways

[obi_waynne]

The UK government have released a website (http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/) where people can propose changes to the law.

A suggestion has been made to remove the speed limits on motorways and it has been badly recieved! See the comments on
Remove all limits - http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/repealing-unnecessary-laws/remove-all-speed-limits-on-motorways
http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/repealing-unnecessary-laws/autobahn-style-rules-on-uk-motorways

Here are a few more sensible propositions.
Introduce a minimum speed http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/repea...um-speed-limits-to-be-introduced-on-motorways
Increase upper speed limit - http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/repealing-unnecessary-laws/raise-motorway-upper-speed-limit & http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/repealing-unnecessary-laws/increase-the-motorway-speed-limit

I think if the proposal was worded correctly more people would be amenable to it.

What about "remove the speed limits on a few long distance motorway sections in the following 2 situations, 1) when the road is dry and 2) Between the hours of 19:00 and 06:00 (or other off peak times.)"

Would that be enough? What would you propose along these lines and do you think it would be a disaster in terms of accidents?

 

[HDi fun]

I think it would be a disaster initially and perhaps such an exercise should be done in progressive stages.

Cruelly though, I suppose we could say that the Darwinian process will resolve the safety problems over time.

 

[obi_waynne]

I've posted links now to the proposals and suggest that if anyone feels strongly about this either way they get involved in the debate.

The M25 sucessfully has variable speed limits, a national limit autobhan style could also be introduced on roads like the M1.

Going at faster speeds will cost more in fuel and I think this factor alone will deter many from using the full capacity of their cars.

 

[glabus]

So... a theoretical solution to a practical problem?
That is a number of people coming together to discus possible options.
Of course, these suggestions as well as many others have come up before
Some have been implemented, others discarded >but ALWAYS it seems that the fundimental root cause/s are NOT addressed.

It is often more safe to travel over the 70 limit then to stay under it!
Maybe trying the Autobahn method may work to some degree No doubt other schemes have much merit. However we all know and have seen that WHATEVER restrictions or freedoms are in force there is ALWAYS some fool who will not regard them sensibly and accidents and deaths will occur.

A vehicle can be a weapon!!
A gun cannot kill. Only the person pulling the trigger
Nowadays it is hard if not impossible for a sane, sensible person to get a legal gun. Gun clubs have gone (except a few Air gun ones!)
Yet anyone of age over 17 who has some money can buy a car or, even hire one

We need to have drivers who are sensible on our roads not speed limits or any other Laws (which most often cannot be upheld/ controlled).

It is not imperative to drive at particular speeds as set by a sign on the road. It IS imperative to drive within your own limitations a skills. Driving over 100 on a clear or unbusy Mway is quite feasible IF the driver is also aware of and prepared to react to different circumstances at any time on the journey.
Travelling at over a ton when the road is relatively clear OK. climbing up the rear of the car in front to try to make them move over at ANY speed NO!!!!!
We all know that cameras, speed bumps, roundabouts, Ped crossings even Traffoic lights are ignored by some drivers. Try going to Leeds (and elsewhere????) and if YOU are not watching the road you stand a good chance of getting killed by the guy who goers through the Red light. (and thats in front of a Police HQ!!!)

Better drivers. Not better roads, rules or Laws!!!!!

 

[geraint13]

i think that long corridors of certain m/ways (m4, m1 egs) should have autobahn rulings. it is drivers who cause accidents not the cars in 99% of the time. so i agree with glabus with tha point. better drivers=safer roads. they have an advanced driving test dont they, so y not teach to tha standard ?

 

[dpsubaru]

regretfully we still have a band of people that think like this:

"Cars might have changed but drivers haven't ... There is no reason to even build a car that does more that 80mph!! What for?? It's illegal! If drivers understood how to overtake and giveway on motorways then 70mph would work prefectly .. I never even went on a motorway during my driving lessons, the problems is with the teaching and understanding not the laws"

These are type of people who should be BANNED! This individual is not doubt a lane hogger who if someone is going faster will sit in the way to prove a point.

The Autobahn idea is good, think that they would need to have a special times for when the chavs/chavettes can go on, race to their hearts content and drive into each other. This is a lot more effective way to weed out these types of people. then we can all have a much safer driving environment.

 

[glabus]

Hi there dpsubaru!
Of course you are right in some aspects of your reply.The ignorant, stupid, inconsiderate, bloodyminded drivers are the problem.
when I took pupils out to the A1 or a Ring Road where the speed limit was 60 or the national (70) they expressed surprise (and sometimes fear!!)A few thought that, as learners; they were not allowed to go above 30!!!
I considered it important for a pupil with some aptitude/basic skills to experience higher speeds.
This gave them the opportunity to get a feeling for speed to distance. I.e the 2 second rule. An ability to judge for themselves the differences in the timing to read the road correctly and so on. I did not insist that they do 60 or 70 I suggested that they proceed at a speed over 30 at which they felt confident to control.
Naturally, I DID get the odd one or two who couldn't come back down to 30 when back on restricted areas!!!
In hindsight perhaps I might have contributed to the boy racer syndrome????? I do not think or hope so. I also used to TRY to get people to take a 2hr lesson on a Mway after they passed the Test. Very few accepted (worse now due to lesson costs no doubt!) but I can tell you tales about THOSE experiences!!!
With regard to cars built to not exceed say 80. My supposition on that is that for Manufacturers to decide on a model specification/s for a particular Country would cause them to be more expensive to make (and therefore buy!!)So the model is generic
There IS a case for vehicles like the Veyron which can do 260mph. Why? Where, except on a controlled track; can you attain such speed? Maybe in US? where limits seem to be 55 - 65 everywhere!!
I keep on saying it
A car cannot kill or injure by itself but drivers do so EVERY DAY
Cheers mate!!

regretfully we still have a band of people that think like this:

"Cars might have changed but drivers haven't ... There is no reason to even build a car that does more that 80mph!! What for?? It's illegal! If drivers understood how to overtake and giveway on motorways then 70mph would work prefectly .. I never even went on a motorway during my driving lessons, the problems is with the teaching and understanding not the laws"

These are type of people who should be BANNED! This individual is not doubt a lane hogger who if someone is going faster will sit in the way to prove a point.

The Autobahn idea is good, think that they would need to have a special times for when the chavs/chavettes can go on, race to their hearts content and drive into each other. This is a lot more effective way to weed out these types of people. then we can all have a much safer driving environment.

 

[dpsubaru]

when i went on my driving lessons it always included part on a 70mph dual carriageway so became accustomed to driving on high-speed roads (the instructor didnt need to tell me twice to get up to 70mph, but it wasnt easy in a Metro!!). However, a number of my freinds did their test in a provincial town and no dual carriageways in sight, the first time they went on them it was incredibly scary - believe that this is an essential element that should be part of the driving test.

 

[Yugguy]

Agree with Wayne. I remember a few years back getting pulled for doing 98mph on the M61. It was 2am in the morning, there was noone about, I was still wide awake and fresh, it wasn't dangerous. Apart from me being a dozy *^*^ and not noticing the unmarked car. I sat in the police car as we watched the video of my driving and even the copper said I was driving absolutely fine but he had to do me simply because of the speed.

I completely reject the idea that I was doing anything dangerous, I was in a modern car less than a year old at the time, a car that if I was in Germany could easily and safely to do that speed all day. A car that could handle a blowout at 90mph far better than a car that had been built in the 60s when the 70 speed limit was introduced could handle one at 70mph.

Speed does NOT cause accidents. INAPPROPRIATE speed does. By all means restrict speeds in crowded estates, near schools, when the motorway is busy, but when it isn't then leave us alone.

 

[glabus]

This might surprise you all but......... I completely agree with this quote. Assuming that your detailing of the event is reasonably accurate then I too might have been travelling at a similar speed (and missed the unmarked as well
Though one has to remember that our speed might be safe the actions of another driver (if there are any others close to you) might suddenly make it inappropriate!!
It is also true that in general all Police Officers WILL write out a ticket (or send you to Court) due to the near 100 speed

Agree with Wayne. I remember a few years back getting pulled for doing 98mph on the M61. It was 2am in the morning, there was noone about, I was still wide awake and fresh, it wasn't dangerous. Apart from me being a dozy *^*^ and not noticing the unmarked car. I sat in the police car as we watched the video of my driving and even the copper said I was driving absolutely fine but he had to do me simply because of the speed.

I completely reject the idea that I was doing anything dangerous, I was in a modern car less than a year old at the time, a car that if I was in Germany could easily and safely to do that speed all day. A car that could handle a blowout at 90mph far better than a car that had been built in the 60s when the 70 speed limit was introduced could handle one at 70mph.

Speed does NOT cause accidents. INAPPROPRIATE speed does. By all means restrict speeds in crowded estates, near schools, when the motorway is busy, but when it isn't then leave us alone.

 

[glabus]

an addition to this!!
I did a bit of a check. You said a few years ago?
Can I ask if you recieved a COFP or did you go to Court? It seems that now it WOULD be a court appearance!!
You also say a car that can handle a blowout? Did you not mean you. A car is incapable of counteracting situations other than when going where it was heading is altered by circumstance and it will then proceed along some different path!!

This might surprise you all but......... I completely agree with this quote. Assuming that your detailing of the event is reasonably accurate then I too might have been travelling at a similar speed (and missed the unmarked as well
Though one has to remember that our speed might be safe the actions of another driver (if there are any others close to you) might suddenly make it inappropriate!!
It is also true that in general all Police Officers WILL write out a ticket (or send you to Court) due to the near 100 speed

 

[Yugguy]

It was 2003, and I got an SP50, 4 points and 145 quid fine. Got no problem with the copper, he was just doing what he had to.

What I meant was, the average car in the 1960s, if it got say a blowout that'd be it, you'd be rollin' into the armco. These days, with modern suspension and electronic aids, it's far more likely that you'd be able to do a controlled stop.

I like this comment off the government site:

The 70 MPH limit was set at a time of fuel shortages, and was retained when it was found that accident stats fell. But that was also at a time when cars were, by today's standards, potential death traps. Vehicle safety has increased enormously since then, but the vacuous twerps in the Department for Transport will insist that nothing has changed, and that the 70MPH limit should be retained. But these are the same intellectually challenged numpties that relaxed the regulations that kept HGVs out of the outer lanes on motorways. Thanks to them, we now have mobile road blocks formed by HGVs occupying all but one lane while fruitlessly attempting to overtake each other. Faster vehicles following are bunched while being funnelled through a single lane, and the consequence is more accidents. Only the profoundly stupid could allow such a situation to exist on the grounds of safety.

 

[Prince]

I think if we had autobahn style rules then we would probably find there would be less accidents on the motorways. At higher speeds you are forced to concentrate harder therefore meaning (in theory) better driving ability. Another point is that because the speed limit would be non-existent less people will feel the need to drive so fast.

At the very least we should convert to European standards meaning the limit changes based on weather conditions. I also think 'new' drivers should be restricted somehow as well.

 

[geraint13]

prince,
wot rules wud u suggest and how would they enforce them ?
the rozzers are already overstretched and they are facing 25% cuts from the coalition.

 

[HDi fun]

It's not the Police on the job that will be cut, it'll be the needless excessive administration and middle management.

 

[glabus]

Sorry mate that is DEFINITELY wrong way round!
I expected a smilie at the end In fact even now ARE there any Police on the job? You don' t often see any in Yorkshire. I cannot give any examples due to OSA. IF cuts are made to management and upper level Officers I will be most surprised. I guess we'll have to wait and see

It's not the Police on the job that will be cut, it'll be the needless excessive administration and middle management.

 

[geraint13]

It's not the Police on the job that will be cut, it'll be the needless excessive administration and middle management.

so they say m8, but in the end its cuts none the less. im not particulary fond of them but where would i be when i needed them.

 

[glabus]

Your handle of Prince may suggest Royal connections In which case no doubt you have a RPU Officer sat as a passenger??
He might be able to 'force' you to concentrate harder. On your own (or with the wife?) you are the enforcer and there is no factual evidence is there to show that drivers behave more sensibly if restrictions are lifted? Do you yourself travel on any Autobahns? If so then perhaps you DO see better driving but I dont believe it will be by British drivers.There is also the problem of drivers who MAY be concentrating harder but... their driving skills are not up to the task. Neither can there be a case to suggest that with no restriction/s drivers will not need to go fast!!
Some drivers seem not able to go slow wherever or whatever the limits.

I think if we had autobahn style rules then we would probably find there would be less accidents on the motorways. At higher speeds you are forced to concentrate harder therefore meaning (in theory) better driving ability. Another point is that because the speed limit would be non-existent less people will feel the need to drive so fast.

At the very least we should convert to European standards meaning the limit changes based on weather conditions. I also think 'new' drivers should be restricted somehow as well.

 

[Prince]

Your handle of Prince may suggest Royal connections In which case no doubt you have a RPU Officer sat as a passenger??
He might be able to 'force' you to concentrate harder. On your own (or with the wife?) you are the enforcer and there is no factual evidence is there to show that drivers behave more sensibly if restrictions are lifted? Do you yourself travel on any Autobahns? If so then perhaps you DO see better driving but I dont believe it will be by British drivers.There is also the problem of drivers who MAY be concentrating harder but... their driving skills are not up to the task. Neither can there be a case to suggest that with no restriction/s drivers will not need to go fast!!
Some drivers seem not able to go slow wherever or whatever the limits.

It was just my opinion. The theory that driving faster = more concentration = better driving standard will generally apply in most countries but I agree that our country probably lacks that standard.

The thing that really hacks me off is when there are average speed cameras on a motorway. That IMO is ridiculous.

 

[geraint13]

It was just my opinion. The theory that driving faster = more concentration = better driving standard will generally apply in most countries but I agree that our country probably lacks that standard.

The thing that really hacks me off is when there are average speed cameras on a motorway. That IMO is ridiculous.

as i said before its all about robbing the motorist.

 

[HDi fun]

I'm not sure that speed enforcement is about robbing the motorist. Councils which have abandoned speed cameras on account of the running costs have seen no difference in accident rates.

SO we have to wonder what the purpose really was?

I know this is not the same situation as on M'ways.

 

[geraint13]

i will always maintain that speed cameras where ever they are located. they are th goverments way off getting us to pay even mre than we already do.

 

[coupe]

grade the lanes.
inside min 50 max 70
middle min 60 max 80
outside min 70 max 100.

 

[geraint13]

grade the lanes.
inside min 50 max 70
middle min 60 max 80
outside min 70 max 100.

i like this idea but theres no way off policing it. would have to have cameras covering each lane. take the limit off the motorway full stop.

 

[HDi fun]

Different limits for lanes is totally pointless.

 

[geraint13]

Different limits for lanes is totally pointless.

may stop truckers racing lol, but totaly uninforceable. derestriction is the only viable option. cant think of anything else.

 

[HDi fun]

De-restriction is a good idea in principle. It's idealistic and I like that. But I doubt it would work without drivers becoming far more aware of what's going on around and (especially) a long way ahead of them. We'd also have to tighten up the MoT testing standards massively.

 

[geraint13]

De-restriction is a good idea in principle. It's idealistic and I like that. But I doubt it would work without drivers becoming far more aware of what's going on around and (especially) a long way ahead of them. We'd also have to tighten up the MoT testing standards massively.

but isnt that agood thing with the mot, tighter rules on mot=safer car. not so good for your older car but in general. better signage perhaps for becoming more aware, maybe. it does open a whole can of worms and maybe thats y they wont consider it.

 

[HDi fun]

You're right, I did contradict myself a bit there.

 

[Prince]

Instead of de-restricting all motorways, how about just some of them? I think that speed limits do need raising on the motorway and average speed cameras should all be burnt down.