What car started off the hot hatch

[obi_waynne]

Would you argue that the Golf GTi was the car that started off and defined the hot hatch?

Was there any other models that had better performance but are largely ignored?

What about the XR3i RS Turbo, R5 Gordini Turbo, 205 GTi? Did these cars compete, improve or just follow the Golf GTi.

Did the hot hatch go off the boil during 1994-2003?

 

[Yugguy]

Alfasud Sprint?

 

[Loz]

The Talbot Sunbeam Lotus always seems to get over looked & it definitly contributed to the hot hatch phi... finom... phenomenononon. :amuse:

 

[Big Fat Fatty]

do do do doo doo



that was one of only a handful of rear wheel drive hatches, another is Stamford's favourite the HSE chevette, they should bring them back!!

was the first Opel Kadett rear drive? and was it even a hatch, i think it was a 2dr coupe like the mk2 escort or even a fastback

I would argue that the Mk1 Golf started the phenomenon of the Hot Hatch but there were others that followed that eclipsed it in terms of performance and in my opinion looks as well, the XR3i was one and the Pug 205 GTi but the car that epitomises the idea of the Hot Hatch is, for me, the Honda Civic EP Type R, being the most fun, best looking and most versatile car for the money

 

[stamford]

Most will say mk1 Golf GTi in 1.6 guise, but the Renault 5 Gordini was the first hot hatch but obviously not as popular as the Golf so often overlooked.

I quite liked the Talbot Sunbeam Ti over the Lotus, was cheaper to run and still fun to work on.

 

[HDi fun]

If we look at mass market and sales then it's the Golf GTi MkI

 

[Gocar]

its definatly the golf that spurred the market on..there were hot hatches b4 it but none captured the publics attention all over the world where it was sold like the golf did

 

[Yugguy]

IMO a true hot hatch should only have a revvy n/a engine. With an honourable exception for the Renault 5 turbo.

 

[HDi fun]

IMO a true hot hatch should only have a revvy n/a engine. With an honourable exception for the Renault 5 turbo.

Why?

 

[SLEEPER]

MK 1 golf started the hot hatch thing as it was the first popular hatch that offered close to sports car performance.

Actually came out in 1979 and although there may have been earlier cars with a hatch it set the benchmark for years to come.

Definately the first hot hatch

 

[dpsubaru]

would say the Renault 5 Gordini i/o the Golf

 

[turbonutter69]

Technically it's the 5 Gordini as this was around before the Gti.

 

[Yugguy]

Why?

Just IMO really. To me what makes a hot hatch a "hot hatch" is a smal car with a high-revving engine and go-karting handling, otherwise it's just a family car that happens to be quick.

But it's all changing of course, the only two cars I can think of off the top of my head these days that follow the above criteria are the civic type-r and the clio 200. Pretty much everything else is charged in some way.

 

[Big Fat Fatty]

it was, and there were other hatches around before that aswell but none were quite as good at doing everything the Golf did, the Renault never handled very well, it scraped it's door handles round the slightest of corners, the only real competition for the top spot came with the XR3i 5 years later,

(the Mk1 GTi came out in '77 and the standard car was in production since '74)

 

[HDi fun]

The 5 Gordini never enjoyed the worldwide sales success that the Golf did.

I didn't consider the XR3i to be anything special. The steering was ridiculously heavy. The clutch like a spring and the gearbox like a bucket of stodgy porridge.

Ford has done better than this.

 

[aston]

XR3I, Sorry matey I must disagree there, got to be the Lotus Sunbeam, Lancia Delta and the affordable Peugeot 205 Rallye / GTI 1.6 / GTI 1.9

Early hatches.
•Alfa Romeo Alfasud
Alfa Romeo Alfasud
The Alfa Romeo Alfasud is a compact car made by Alfa Romeo of Italy from 1971 to 1989. It was considered one of Alfa Romeo's most successful models, sold 893,719 examples from 1972 to 1983 plus 121,434 Sprint versions from 1976 to 1989...
TI
•Autobianchi A112 Abarth
•Ford Fiesta
•Peugeot 104Peugeot ZS / ZS Rallye / ZS2
•Renault 5 Alpine/GordiniRenault 5 AlpineThe Renault 5 Alpine/Gordini was one of the first true hot-hatches. Its launch in 1976 pre-dated that of the Volkswagen Golf GTI by a year.Notable features included:...
/Alpine TurboRenault 5 Alpine TurboThe Renault 5 Alpine or Gordini was one of the first true hot hatches, produced by French automaker Renault between 1976 and 1984. By the time the Volkswagen Golf GTI came on the scene and became established, the R5 Alpine looked a little slow. Renault launched the Renault 5 Alpine Turbo in 1982...

•Simca 1100Simca 1100 TI
•Talbot Sunbeam Lotus
•Vauxhall Chevette HS
•Volkswagen Golf Mk1 GTI

 

[uaistain]

What about the toyota corrolla gt that came out in 1985 the square shape model a nippy little car i had one years ago 1.6 twin cam 16valve i put a full janspeed and k and n filter lowered onto 15 inch stealths .Nothing would match the golf i would admit .

 

[HDi fun]

The Golf was an institution long before any of these.

 

[geraint13]

would have to go with majority and say the mk 1 gti

 

[jd autos]

funny enough i was reading about this the other day and the motoring historians say that it was definately the golf.
But my fav was the hs chevette as already mentioned.

 

[turbonutter69]

The Golf started off mainstreaming hot hatchs but the original hot hatch was the Gordini. I'm not fond of either TBH.

 

[HDi fun]

No, I'm not over keen on the early Golf GTi either, though I quite liked the later ones (MkIII onwards) when they got all soft and heavy but the 2.0i 8v certainly didn't deserve a GTi badge. Flexible? yes. Quick? No.

I've never liked any Renault 5's - they scare me with their ultra flimsy build.

Can we consider a Tickford Capri Turbo to be a hot hatch despite being RWD?

 

[turbonutter69]

I'll take the hit and say yes seeing as it does have a hatch and on the grounds that the Sunbeam is classed as a hatch and that is rwd.

 

[HDi fun]

I'll take the hit and say yes seeing as it does have a hatch and on the grounds that the Sunbeam is classed as a hatch and that is rwd.

Yeah - you rated the Sunbeam Lotus I seem to recall.

I've only seen a couple - never even ridden in one, never mind driven one though. Both were in black and gold (John Player Special colours).

Perhaps we can introduce the '87 Corrolla GTi as well then - that was a RWD model.

None of these cars started the revolution directly, but perhaps we can consider their contribution to the breed, all the same?

Over to you :bigsmile:

 

[turbonutter69]

My mate had a Sumbeam for his first car when we where about 17.
It handled really well which was a suprise for me to start off with.
My mum and dad had a capri a few years ago and it was immense. Never missed a beat till my dad wrote it off.
He did rebuild it and it drove spot on after.
I loved that car it was awesome. Was a 2.8 V engine that was slightly tweaked and lowered it went really well.
Never like that model Corrolla for some reason.

 

[HDi fun]

My mate had a Sumbeam for his first car when we where about 17.
It handled really well which was a suprise for me to start off with.
My mum and dad had a capri a few years ago and it was immense. Never missed a beat till my dad wrote it off.
He did rebuild it and it drove spot on after.
I loved that car it was awesome. Was a 2.8 V engine that was slightly tweaked and lowered it went really well.
Never like that model Corrolla for some reason.

I don't think that many people did like it. It was there but probably didn't do much to promote the hot hatch era.

 

[SLEEPER]

2 questions
Which defined hot hatch
and what was first

Pretty much everyone in the galaxy (apart from a few on this thread ) agree it is golf was it the first ? No but that wasnt the question.
At the time the r5 was never known as a hot hatch so to say it defined the phrase has to be wrong.

Now the first ?
There is a quite popular small british car from the mid sixties that had a rear hatch . The sports version was definately a hot hatch at that time.

Any guesses -without searching wikipedia aston

 

[HDi fun]

Hillman Imp?

 

[obi_waynne]

The MK1 Golf GTi must date back to the late 70's (76 I would guess!)

 

[turbonutter69]

76 is correct.

 

[Yugguy]

Here's a real man's hot hatch:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1985-ROVER-SD...6465321?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item53e5ba1da9

Check out the engine bay. Sweet V8. 200bhp in this form too, still quick by today's standards.

And none of this namby-pamby safety rubbish.

I can feel my chest hair growing just looking at the pictures.

 

[SLEEPER]

Here's a real man's hot hatch:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1985-ROVER-SD...6465321?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item53e5ba1da9

Check out the engine bay. Sweet V8. 200bhp in this form too, still quick by today's standards.

And none of this namby-pamby safety rubbish.

I can feel my chest hair growing just looking at the pictures.

Hardly a hot hatch unless its overheating

Might be quick compared to todays tractors but not at all quick compared to one of todays hot hatches especially around corners

HDI your close with imp

They made a fastback version called the sunbeam stilleto. It was a lot faster than a standard imp and handled pretty well . Would have qualified as a hot hatch in 66 but not of course today

 

[Yugguy]

Lol, I was being a little tongue-in-cheek. Although it is technically a hatchback.

To give it credit, it did have a sub-8 second 0-60, which is still fairly quick even today.

I've always liked the SD1s.