Where do i even begin???

PKnFR

Tuner
Points
32
Location
USA, Pittsburgh
Car
'88 300ZX Turbo Z31
My '72 Datsun 240Z has a bit of problems.

I pulled my plugs and they looked dark and oily, so took it to the autoshop. The shop said it was carbon deposits and I should buy new plugs and run Seafoam through my gas. That caused carbon to billow from the exhaust, so I figured it was removing the carbon from my motor. Then (to fix an electrical problem) I took it to a shop and it had no power. It couldnt make it up any hill. Now it wont start :evil: . So i decided to check the plugs again, and sure enough, they're covered in carbon. It turns over, but wont start. Doesnt the motor need to be running to use the carb cleaner?

Any suggestions to help with ANY of the problems would be GREATLY appreciated.
 
Sounds as if the carbs may need refurbing or re-jetting, however what carbs are you running and when's the last time they were overhauled? What condition is the engine in? Is it worn or showing its age? Lots of questions, just need to get a feel on the condition.
 
if the seafoam the stuff that removes carbon build up from in the engine ? could well be that some of this carbon was blocking pits and now its been removed then the compression could be low
 
The carbs are Hitachi SU's. Idk when there were overhauled or even cleaned. Define "showing its age". It looks fine, but then again, who am i to say.
 
SU's do wear so maybe they need rejetting? As for showing it's age it's aimed at how well do you know your engine? Have you tried a compression test lately?
 
doesnt need to to do the compression test

Was that you saying I dont need it to catch to do the compression test?

Oh, I want to replace the air filter (i learned that it uses exhaust gasses to warm up air going into the carb through the filter, but my car was spitting out carbon, therefore... Carbon, meet air filter). Then clean carbs (hopefully it will start). And start from there. I do want to get that compression test in there as well.
 
Seafoam is ok if it is used on a regular basis (every 12,000 miles) if you engine has done over 100,000 miles and has never been seafoamed then wouldn't bother.

if the plugs are getting carbon build up quickly then it's probably running too rich, see if you can lean out the mixture and clean your plugs and give it a start. if it does start then take it to be tuned by a proffesional.
 
no you fit the tester in place of the spark plug and turn the engine over. will be a 2 man job however.

I can go get a tester, but I do not know the correct compression levels

@ JARRUS (i dont know how to place two quotes)

Im not understand as to why you wouldnt bother seafoaming the engine at that point. I think you would need to clean it even more so. Can you explain that a little further? I also thought I was running too rich, but I do not know how to adjust it. AS SOON AS I GET IT RUNNING, a professional tune up is my MAJOR priority.

Another questions is, seeing as its a '72, would it run on leaded or unleaded. I cant find anything telling me.
 
the seafoam may remove all the carbon deposits that may have sealed the engine.
by removing these there is a chance that the engine will run poor as the internals wouldnt be sealing properly.


do you have such a thing as a haynes manual ? these should give you the readings your looking for
 
the seafoam may remove all the carbon deposits that may have sealed the engine.
by removing these there is a chance that the engine will run poor as the internals wouldnt be sealing properly.


do you have such a thing as a haynes manual ? these should give you the readings your looking for

Cars... Quite confusing things they are. From what I gathered, carbon is bad (or so I thought). Are you saying that the seafoam ate away at the seals, working too effectively? That I could understand.

Actually, amongst all other books I have, I just stumbled over my Haynes manual this morning. :bigsmile:
 
no over time your engine cylinders could have became pitted - the acid caused by the burning etc - the carbon build up in these pits. the seafoam would remove them causeing the air and oil to pass
 
ohhh..... That makes sense. So.... what would be the process to fix that there problem? Sounds like a rebuild/grinding job, but then again, i may be jumping the gun.

And thats all only if my compression is bad.... right?
 
You might get away with new rings on the pistons. Fit the new rings, rough up the cylinder walls and start the bedding in process again. ;)
 
The non start problem is unlikely to be down to a loss of compression though - but the lack of power is typically a loss of compression.

Check for a spark and check for fuel delivery at the engine. These are the two most common issues for starting. Fouled plugs will not spark very well at all and this might be the cause but did they get fouled because the car is running too rich?

I really don't think that a layer of Carbon will seal an engine and make much difference to an engines compression myself.
 
'72 Datsun will work fine with leaded.

SU carburettors are like a high maintenance mistress. they will work amazingly well if pampered, but need regular 'reassurance of your emotional attachment towards them". So if you gonna rebuild your carburettor, get it done by an expert, who is at least 50 yrs ('coz that age group would then have plenty experience, as later these carburettors were phased out in Japanese cars), else it would cost you an arm and a leg in break-downs and visits to the work-shop.

You would especially need to change the jet and rebuild the "Butterfly Valve", and this will need boring and fitting, as a good fit is not sold over the counter and needs work specific to your particular carburettor.

And then starts the story of tuning, where the float setting is also a negating factor, 'coz if its not just right, it would either flood or starve the engine.

A good alternative would be to swap the SU with a Solex, which is almost a straight swap, with just a change in the inlet manifold, to change the angle, so that it is flat parallel to the ground, facing upwards. Use a jet size 15% less than the original Carb, and you are good as new.

These carbs are reliable and will not flood or starve, and need almost no maintenance, comparatively.

Compression: this loss could be attributed to the boring of the piston sleeves, And the valve seats. Since this car uses leaded, there is a build-up of deposit around the valve seats which obviously lights up with every spark inside the combustion chamber, and over time, slowly eats away at the metal, thus not allowing the valves to firmly sit in their seats and so letting the compression escape.

Re-sleeving of the valve stems and grinding new seats into the head would solve this issue, and is a cheaper job than re-boring to an oversize piston. but this can only be determined after the head is taken off, and pitting around the seats is visible.

Once this is done, use an additive, either "Red X" or any other alternative for at least 500 miles, so as to build up the carbon deposit around the piston rings again, which had been washed away by the sea foam.

After that clean your carb jets, both main and idling, and you should have decent compression.

Remember that adding carbon back to the cylinder is a temporary SOS kind of repair, and does not replace the actual re-boring of the cylinder.

To actually determine if the engine needs oversize boring; When you do the compression test, with the plugs off, take the reading as you would normally.

Then taking off the hose from the spark-plug, add 2 spoon-fulls of fresh engine oil into the chambers from the spark plug hole, and let the car sit for 10 minutes.

After that perform the test again, and see if you get higher readings.

If you do, then re-bore.

If you don't then its the carburettor or the valve-seats and valve stem sleeves.

All this is done of-course, because, you say the engine turns over and does not fire.

Did you check if there is a spark from the coil?;);)

Lemme know how it goes.........
 
If you test all 6 and they are all very close chances are things are ok - on an old worn engine one cylinder/valve/piston/ring etc will usually give in first so one cylinder will be down by a fair bit ( more than about 10% is usually a giveaway.)So as far as knowing exactly what the compression should be - In most cases you dont have to .Besides which different guages will give different readings.

It would have been a lot better to have done it before and after using the cleaner . Than you would know if its worse . Of course the test will still tell you if a cylinder is down.
 
OK. I have been so caught up in school and athletics that I haven't been able to tend to my precious Datsun. I have am almost positive it is a ring/boring issue. I noticed my starter was turning slowly and had it tested, which it failed. Got a new one and it fired up, but.... it would not idle (i had to stay on the pedal), it was slow to rev up, and after it stalled, it failed to start again. Pulled the plugs and, yet again, they were oil covered.

Consulted my Haynes Manual which stated it is usually from "oil leaking past worn valve guides or piston rings into the combustion chamber. Causes hard starting, misfiring and hesitation." That seems to accurately describe my situation.

But I have another curveball for you... In my Black Dragon Automotive magazine (for 240Z) they have Premium Valve Guides which "protect your car's engine from hazards like unleaded gasoline and have the convenience of buying gas at any station" as well as Hardened Valve Seats. If I am to replace the valve guides and seats anyways, should I go this route?
 
Yes deffinately, hardend valve seats are a good upgrade for that very reason. You will be able to run unleaded petrol (gasoline to you).

I'm sorry to hear about the seriousness of the problem and I hope you get it sorted. Also get the carbs tuned after and service it. (New dizzy cap, plugs, filters and fluids/oils etc.)
 
Like I said in my post dtd 9 th Jan, you do need new valves, and as jarrus pointed out, with unleaded you should go in for the hardened valves.

Again, at the risk of sounding repetitive, I would suggest Solex carburettors as they are far easier to maintain tune, leave alone more efficient.

In fact they may cost marginally more than the cost of rebuilding the SU.

And you will immediately feel the difference.

Decision is yours, but do lemme know what you decide, and if you do change, how do you like the performance.

Cheers
 
Jarrus, its no sweat. I'm 17, a full time student, and drive my dad's car when I NEED to get somewhere. I love her, but she can be decomissioned for a little.

Picassononwheels, there is nothing wrong with being repetitive. It shows you're firm in your decision/advice. It's much better than someone who seems indecisive and flip-flops.

I've decided to go with the hardened valve seats and premium guides as well as the Solex carbs. But here is another, and hopefully the last, curveball....

My car will never pass inspection due to the lack of wiring. I'll take pics later and post a link to a site where they can be viewed, i can never get them in threads correctly.

Simply, the car was left open and some kids ran into it and pulled/ripped/cut, everything near the speakers and radio. The brake lights, parking lights, and turn signals work, but the head lights didnt even have the plug from the harness. The previous owner took it to a shop that made a connection and fashioned a floor switch to alternate between high beams and low beams (although it is only a difference in intensity, not angle).

The thing about the turn signals is that they work inside the car, but have no mount for the actual lights on the car (you'll have to see the pics for a clearer understanding).

You guys have been a great help with me thus far. Besides going to junk yards, are there any other suggestions you can give me? It would be greatly appreciated.
 

Please watch this on my YouTube channel & Subscribe.


Back
Top