Torque Cars

Water injection

Discussion in 'Drag Racing' started by obi_waynne, 29 April 2008.

  1. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    I have been reading up on water injection systems and it seems a good way to prevent knock and allowing the engine to run with higher octane fuel. Has anyone actually fitted this to their cars? Does it make a BIG difference?

    Are there any drawbacks to water injection systems? Does it have to be injected at the point of fuel injection or can a mist be taken in near the air filter?
     
  2. thexav

    thexav Pro Tuner Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,044
    Car:
    2002 Clio 172
    Why would anyone want to squirt water into their engine? It seems mad to me. Cars dont run on water :lol:
     
  3. claymore

    claymore The Torque Meister

    Messages:
    1,888
    From:
    Shrewsbury
    Car:
    T-10k,
    there was definately an advantage on carburator and early injection, (like having an intercooler on a boosted car, it cools down the intake charge, therefore a more dense fuel/air mixture) but with modern ecu's i'm not sure if there would be any benefit
     
    Last edited: 29 April 2008
  4. pgarner

    pgarner TC ModFather Moderator

    Messages:
    16,522
    From:
    Lockerbie, SW Scotland
    Car:
    Octy smoke machine
    there is a benifit but your talking silly power. seen a kit for impreza sti.
    for the kit to work efficiantly the engine has to be kicking out 400+ bhp
     
  5. old-git

    old-git Moderator

    Messages:
    9,178
    From:
    Essex
    Car:
    Elan & Robin Hood
    If you don't fancy spraying water into engine, then try spraying it over intercooler. This will cool intake charge resulting in denser air allowing more fuel to be injected. Spraying over radiator also helps in heavy/stationary traffic conditions. Trigger can be either manual or automatic. You can also use carbon dioxide or nitrous (these, being very cold, work better but are more expensive to re-fill)
     
  6. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    That would seem to be more sensible for a street application - thanks for the tip Old-Git.
     
  7. dvldoc

    dvldoc New member

    Messages:
    8
    You must not know the fact that water is produced during combustion already.

    Look something like this for each 100 gallons of gasoline burned diesels are similar, If you don't believe me then feel free to look it up. Your worring about adding 63ml/min of water to a engine that is making gallons and gallon of it.

    90-120 gallons of water
    3 to 10 gallons of unburned gasoline
    ½ to 2 pounds of soot
    ¼ to 1 pound of resins and varnishes
    1 to 4 pounds of nitrogen and sulfur acids
    6 to 10 ounces of insoluble lead salts (if leaded gasoline is used)
    1 to 2 ounces of hydrochloric and hydrobromic acids.
     
  8. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    That puts it into perspective DVLDOC. Its the salts and acids that worry me :eek:
     
  9. old-git

    old-git Moderator

    Messages:
    9,178
    From:
    Essex
    Car:
    Elan & Robin Hood
  10. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    Thanks OG. Its gaining popularity from what I can make out. Researched article coming up..... watch this space.
     
  11. HI Lads,

    Haven't been on for a while but just saw this post, What/Alcohol Injection has underlying benefits that you may of overlooked!

    Water/Alcohol Injection is a good systerm for high performance applications;

    1: This system helps take charge/combustion chamber temp away allowing for less chance of detonation and short bursts of higher boost to be run, This is the point that you have talked about,

    2: This is the not so broadcasted fact, but i will try and explain it!! Your injection water into your cylinder in a atomised state, This water then hit the heat of the engine and as it is in such small form evaporates, Now water is made up out of two part Hydrogen and One part oxygen, Now the Oxygen is broken from the Hydrogen and works as a catalyst for the flame front creating better performance, Remember that you inject thousand of molecules in to the cylinder,

    'Every little Helps'
     
  12. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    Thanks ACE! Good observation.

    Do we inject water into the cylinders, mix it with the fuel in the manifold or inject it upstream of the air filter for best results?
     
  13. Hi Wayne,

    There are different ways you can inject it, My prefered way and depending on the quality of the kit is to have it inject in the inlet manifold on the headers, One per cylinder or as a fifth injector, I would normally inject in the direction of flow as it is being atomised via the injector,

    What i can do for anyone wanting to do this is i can weld boses on to the manifold, drill and tap them for the injectors or drill them for push in injectors, If anyone wants this done please let me know

    I forgot to add that Hydrogen is also a flammable gas !!!
     
  14. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    I've been washing my hair with an explosive substance - no wonder it's all dropped out! :lol:
     
  15. Good one wayne!!! :D

    What i find amazing is that oxygen is a catalyst, Hydrogen is a flammable gas yet when the two are mixed it becomes the best way to put out fires!!!!!
     
  16. yul carlinsky

    yul carlinsky Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    24
    From:
    south africa
    Car:
    bmw 325i
    out in SA ive seen cars using water injection systems and it works well. its more of an anti-knock system but comes with bonuses such as cooling intake charge(more power) . it works well on turbo or high compression motors nd can even squirt methanol
     
    obi_waynne likes this.
  17. MrB

    MrB Road Burner

    Messages:
    291
    From:
    ESSEX UK
    i run a 30/70 mix of methanol / water and to get the best results out of it you have to map it in, it does have properties when just fitted but if you map it in then the benefits of the octain boost from the methanol coupled with the denser combustion from the water makes for some good gains on high bhp aplications
     
  18. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    What failsafes do you have if the bottle dries up?
     
  19. Econ

    Econ Torque Junkie

    Messages:
    113
    Car:
    Skyline R34 GTT
    Hmmmmmmmm none lol
     
  20. pgarner

    pgarner TC ModFather Moderator

    Messages:
    16,522
    From:
    Lockerbie, SW Scotland
    Car:
    Octy smoke machine
    low level alarm would be a good idea, lets say when theres 1 ltr left, along with a switch to disable it in the ecu
     
  21. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    :eek: The engine knock sensor would not be able to compensate for that very easily! Some water injection systems have a controller which will back off the timing a little when the reserviour dries up. You might get away with partial throttle as a get you home measure but you should at least have a gauge or warning light. ;)

    Is it sprayed before or after the turbo? Pre turbo does not cut out so suddenly as the moisture in the air pipes acts as a buffer. After turbo it is a lot more sudden as the vapourisation is almost instant.
     
  22. MrB

    MrB Road Burner

    Messages:
    291
    From:
    ESSEX UK
    on mine the water meth will only get switched on for the strip, theres no need for it on the road as there arent many roads were it would be possible to open the car up to 2bar boost let alone want to. the dual maps will know the difference between running with and without automaticaly when the injection is switch on. it will also be mapped to fire only at a set boot and temp setting which the ecu will control and cater for, anyone that runs up a strip without checking the car fully has got to be mad so no need to worry about running out of water at any point with mine.

    there is a gadget you can get from some places i know demon tweaks do it which is a lead of sensors that light up an led on youtr dash as the bottle gets low, id imagine it wouldnt be too hard on a decent ecu to wire it in as a fail safe to stop the map switching or to conect the led to an adible alarm

    my injector is set up just infront of the throttle body in the intercooler pipe and wont fire till the engine hits 2bar

    and james ( econ ) thanks for the quality input lol
     
    Last edited: 23 October 2008
  23. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    Thought you'd have that covered somehow anyway! :)
     
  24. raymondst

    raymondst New member

    Messages:
    6
    From:
    Indonesia
    Car:
    Nissan Cefiro A31
    Hi, I am a newbie here..
    I also have made a homemade water injection system for my car (1993 Nissan Cefiro A31). It was pressurized by an R/O pump at 120 PSI and controlled by a solenoid.the result is good. I have gained 15 HP more power. seems that my fuel consumption also decreasing slightly.
    so, water at precise amount squirted into intake chamber make you gain more power at cost of only water.. it was 1 year already since I install the WI system, and i notice no corrosion at all. just make sure you fill demineralized water into the reservoir. the spark plugs also always clean as new. worth to try!
     
  25. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,202
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    Got any pics of your setup raymondst? Are you injecting directly at the same point as the fuel or up/down stream of it? Does it have a cut off if the water level drops?
     

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