Vibration whilst accelerating.

rdp50734

Torque Junkie
Points
67
Location
sandwell
Car
skoda fabia 1.4tdi
Hi, I have an issue with a vibration, it is only in 1st 2nd and 3rd that it is noticeable.

Really its only under a bit of "harder acceleration"

Its like a rumble but the rear view mirror vibrates.

Any ideas to what it could be?

I have had a look and the only thing I can find is a split boot gator on the passenger side, so suspect its the CV joint but thought I would put it out there for anyone who might have a better idea.

Its a fabia 1.4tdi estate 06

Thanks.
 
It could be the dual mass flywheel on its way out. How many miles on it? DMF longevity varies widely and depends upon the kind of usage the car sees. Typically they are better if the engine is operated in its notional power band rather than lugged at ridiculously low revs. Replacement is not cheap, unfortunately. I doubt that the CV joint is at fault here but the gaiter should be replaced anyway.
 
69,000 and its been driven the full rev range although I don't take it past the redline very often.
 
Redlining is not going to hurt the DMF at all (unless you're side-stepping the clutch while the engine is riding the governor). Slugging along at 950rpm in 5th gear is more likely to distress it.

Are all 69,000 miles under your direction?

My Dad (78yrs) has a habit of not changing down until his car is about to stall, and it's cost him dearly in terms of clutches, engine mounts and emissions control issues.
 
The first 21K was by the previous owner but the rest are all mine.

Not sure what side stepping the clutch is though lol
 
The first 21K was by the previous owner but the rest are all mine.

Not sure what side stepping the clutch is though lol

Boy racer style full revs and letting the clutch pedal spring up, thus savagely engaging the clutch and battering the entire drivetrain.
Clearly this isn't the issue here though.

It could be DMF, the three cylinder engine does have 60 degrees of crank rotation between each power stroke but then again it's not a hugely torquey engine so it's unlikely to be savage on the DMF. It might be a loose engine mount but Skodas are pretty weel put together so I'd be surprised.

Has the performance and driving feel changed significantly? Bit of a head scratcher but let's keep the brain cells turning and try to come up with a plan here.
 
It did get remapped a few months ago, but it isn't really pushed hard all the time.

I did recently check over the engine mounts and they all seem ok.
 
OK, all looks good. A remap won't damage anything but we could argue that extra torque will hasten the demise of the DMF. Having said that, driving style is the single biggest factor and your driving style doesn't exactly sound outrageous.

Fuel quality? What do you feed it? Let's keep going . . . .
 
It used to have supermarket diesel, but since it has had the remap I have been using shell standard.
 
Let's for now stop considering the DMF, but not dismiss it totally. Try a tank of Bp Ultimate and lace it with some diesel engine chemical medicine. Don't use Millers Diesel Ecomax as that is a cetane booster and BP Ult is rated at 55 anyway. Millers is good in standard diesel such as Shell you are using, but it's not primarily designated as a cleaning product.

I am thinking along the lines of Wynns Diesel Power 3 (from what I can determine, Wynns Diesel Clean 3 is chemically identical); Forte Diesel Treatment (officially trade only but Amazon & ebay are good sources).

Not promising results but these are cheap things to try before going down the mechanical attention route.

These VW engines use the PD injection arrangement. The fuel delivery pressures are outrageous (few common rail systems get near) but as a result of this, tiny differences in delivery pressure across the iujectors can result in all sorts of undesireable driving characteristics.

Cleaning things up can make a huge difference so maybe we go down the chemical route initially?
 
Sure it sounds like a good plan, I have about 100 miles left in the tank and will truth ultimate stuff.

I do have some diesel redex, is it worth trying that or go for the specific treatments above?

As I have the switchable maps, I may with it back to standard. Thinking about it, when I changed from the performance blend to the economy thats when this all started.

I'm going to switch over to the performance again and see if it goes away in the next 100 miles.

Thanks, for the help!
 
Diesel Redex isn't the best of breed but worth a go. If the vibration is significantly greater since remapping then it's possibly just a result of the torque increase. It's not unusual tbh, and points to what we're discussing re driving style. Remapped diesels do need to be driven prescriptively, ie no lugging at low revs. I'd still give the chemicals a go. There's nothing to lose.

My Passat (TDi 170) is gently remapped and that can get a bit 'buzzy' if I push too hard low in the rev range. I avoid doing so for that reason. There's a lot to be said for six cylinder engines, the engine torque is always positive whereas a 4 cylinder experiences quite savage torque changes every 180 degrees of crank rotation. 3 cylinder engines are probably better than four cylinder engines in this regard if carefully designed.
 
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I'll give the redex a try whilst the forte diesel treatment is on order.

I'll also switch the map and try the ultimax stuff too!

I do make sure I fully use the turbo.
 
I have read many of your posts, I always find them informative.

I do really like this site and have felt very welcome

I hope you will drop by my new thread once I start it.

I will be doing up my new FTO gpx 2.0 mivec.

I will drop back here and update the thread though!

Thanks again Paul, Rob.
 
vibration under hard acceleration sounds to me like a problem with the rear end. In 1-2-3 gears under acceleration the weight will be on the rear suspension but the split gaiter might cause an issue up front and if the issue is unilateral, I could see that causing a vibration too.

First thing I'd do though is to check the tires. What you described and how you described it could be a tread separation beginning on the inside of the tire. If that separates on the highway it could be real dangerous.
 
vibration under hard acceleration sounds to me like a problem with the rear end. In 1-2-3 gears under acceleration the weight will be on the rear suspension but the split gaiter might cause an issue up front and if the issue is unilateral, I could see that causing a vibration too.

First thing I'd do though is to check the tires. What you described and how you described it could be a tread separation beginning on the inside of the tire. If that separates on the highway it could be real dangerous.

Not on a modestly powered FWD car
 
It is only running around 105 bhp and it is front wheel drive, I will check all the tyres anyway.

Thanks.
 
Right after reading that the issue of vibration could be due to worn inner CV joints.

I also had a split gator on the outer CV joint so all 4 have been replaced.

Also changed the top mount on the passenger side as there was a knocking noise.

Unfortunately its still there not as bad but still there....

Im going to try some new tyres too, other than that I think I am just going to have to live with it....
 
I have had the car for 7 years and the new gruffness is much more than before.

We did discuss the DMF back in the beginning but put it on hold.
 
Is this rumble at a certain part of the RPM range? Low RPM full throttle causing a vibration would indicate the engine is over fuelling or overboosting and cutting or similar. Does the engine seem to die during this rumble phase and only pick up slowly? Does it stop when you lift off from full throttle? Does it do it on the standard map or only when you use the remap?
 
Hi, its does start around 1500rpm and continues to 3000 ish but only in gears 1-3

The vibration stops when you lift off.

It doesn't seem to die.

I'm sure when I swapped back to the standard map it was still there but I will have to do it again to be sure.

If I slowly put the acceleration on and allow the engine to pick up there is no vibration, its only really under heavy acceleration.
 
Very very very very DMFey to my mind. Unless a previous user has replaced with a solid flywheel, which would also give you these symptoms. I can't remember the history of your car off hand.

Does the gear selector move about when you go from power on to power off and vice versa? This would point at engine mountings.
 
Not sure if the gear stick moves but can check later.

I bought the car with 21K on the clock and it was a company car before that so I doubt the flywheel would have been changed then.

What cost is a DMF and a likely place to get one?

I had a look on eurocar parts and they don't do one.
 
As I couldn't find one I messaged a clutch specialist company for a price as they had one listed. The person replied with,

"Hi this car does not run a dual mass flywheel. It runs a solid flywheel. If you require a new one you will have to go direct to a VAG dealer."

So where next......?
 
No, if the FW had been done previously then it would definitely be a DMF under warranty. Highly unlikely at 21,000 miles.

I had my Passat DMF done in January. Mine was circa £1000 including parts; labour & VAT. I doubt very much if yours will be any cheaper. Sadly they are expensive items and fitting involves removing the gearbox.

If it needs replacing then don't bother with VW, you'll pay nearly twice that amount.

Do, however, fit an OEM quality one.

Don't be tempted with a solid flywheel replacement, these will put huge strain on the engine and the whole drivetrain.

You'll also likely have even more vibration with a solid component than you have already.

Diagnosis is often difficult so phone around and discuss the problem with potential garages and gauge the reaction.

You might as well get the clutch done (cheap component) at the same time as this is labour only given the 'box will be out of the car.
 
Checked the gearstick when driving, it is stationery.

I did try revving the car in neutral and there is no vibration even up at 5k.
 
If it was the flywheel wouldn't the vibration be there with the engine revving in neutral?
 
Not necessarily, the flywheel is not under any load when revving in neutral. Have a look at this animation:


It shows basically how a DMF works.
 
Right well I went through changing some bits, engine mount as that was clicking and squeezing when rocked.

Changed the dogbone mount. Passenger top suspension mount as the vibration seemed to be coming from the passenger side.

Both inner and outer CV joints.... and then......

The gearbox mount! It looked fine! All the rubber was sound.

I removed it anyway and the rubber was destroyed on the underside.

So I changed it and oh my god! Its like new!

Put my map back on and I love my car again!

So now its time to show the FTO some TLC now I don't need it to get around.
 
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