turbo torque power (S3) vs high rpm power (Civic type R) ??

[lsvag]

in other words, power by torque v power by high rpm...

what are the advantages/disadvantages of getting 200+ bhp, from a 2 litre engine, by increasing torque with turbos rather than increasing rpm range ?? or vice versa ??

1) one advantage, i think, of the high rpm engine is maybe the lower maximum torque throughout the rev range increases longetivity of the drivetain and maybe the engine it self.

but surely both have their ups and downs in terms of reliability, fuel consumption, longetivity, out right performance, weight, effieciency, cost, power potential.. etc

 

[Yugguy]

Horses for courses, its just what you prefer.

 

[pgarner]

Horses for courses, its just what you prefer.

as above


depends on where you like to be able to just put your foot down from a cruising rpm to overtake or have to drop cogs.
it was the one thing i did hate about my hondas was having to drop to 3rd to pass something doing 50. where as i can just put the foot down to pass in the turbo

youve also got the basic tuning that turbos can have their power boosted cheaply compared to the nasp alternatives

 

[obi_waynne]

For me turbos are the best. A simple remap yields another 30 or 40 bhp and the fun kick you get when it comes on power is so addictive!

You'll probably find that turbos are generally more efficient and use less fuel than the same power out of a NASP engine.

 

[SLEEPER]

what are the advantages/disadvantages of getting 200+ bhp, from a 2 litre engine, by increasing torque with turbos rather than increasing rpm range ?? or vice versa ??

there isnt an answer because it is just not that simple -

Turbos dont increase torque they increase power and torque but you have to be able to spool up the turbos pretty quickly to run them efficiently
Turbo engines also run much hotter on high boost so the engine needs to be able to cope with the extra heat.

on a NA engine you cant just increase the rev limit of an engine. The head design has to be able to flow enough plus the engine configuration has to bw one that will rev freely.

Its far more about what can be done with the engine in question - Tell us the engine you are talking about and you can have an answer but of course the engine will need to be able to cope with the extra power whatever way its acheived

 

[lsvag]

the only engine that isn't already boosted either way but can and be able to take it is probably the 1UZ-FE (which is out of topic, but the original question was on the 1.8t oof the S3 and the k20a of the civic type R)... using the right bits, it's rev limit can be increased to 9300rpm (from stock 6300 i think) from which it makes around 410 Rear wheel horsepower and max torque of 260 ft/lb. how would you compare this engine to a 1UZ-FE with a turbo (or 2) attached to match the 410 rear wheel horsepower (apparently it can get this without changing the internals or changing compression ratio) ?? this will rev up to 6300 rpm, but it would have alot more than 260 ft/lb of torque. would the 9300 rpm engine need a new, stronger transmission like the turbo one would ??

 

[pgarner]

are you on about the K20 making 410 ??? it as standard is close to 9000 rpm anyway

 

[obi_waynne]

I'd be very surprised if a K20 can make a reliable 410 whp on stock internals with a rev limit rise!

 

[MasterAuron]

VTEC sucks. All the lag with none of the boost. It's a shame because technically the engineering is great and Honda make some EXCELLENT chassis but they need to be boosted to be fast, which luckily they respond well to.

 

[SLEEPER]

I think you need to confirm which engine you are on about

 

[MasterAuron]

I think you need to confirm which engine you are on about

Who me?

Pretty much all of Honda's "normal" cars perhaps with exception to the S2000. NSX is a properly fast car no doubt about it but it's not your average hot hatch!

I'm looking at YOU EP3/DC2/DC5/EK9 owners!

 

[SLEEPER]

No not you MA the guy that started the thread

 

[lsvag]

I didn't have a specific engine in mind. The S3 and the Type R engines were examples of different tuning paths taken. The engine i was talking about before was the 1UZ-FE from a lexus, since that is capable to being tuned either way.

 

[SLEEPER]

Unless you specify the motor the whole thread is just conjecture and a waste of time.

It has been said many times ( and been ignored the same number) that tuning engines isnt just bolt on bits and then sit back and wait for the results.)

All engines respond to tuning in a different way -
RB 26s for example will rev to insane levels if the top end is built with the rigjht parts
A SOHC civic engine will not ( I only use these examples as I have both)
So regardless of the cc a civic SOHC engine cant flow large volumes of air . You cant therefore turbo it to daft limits or tune it to oblivion .
Yes I know its a V TEC but all that does is make is a bit better WITHIN its rev range the DHOC version will walk all over it power wise.
Comversely an RB can rev to 10000 safely ( subject , as said befoe , to the right build )
Air flow is therefore not a problem which is why 600 is no problem and 1000 is acheivable . Same can be said with the TT supra engine and various others.

Of course the engine and the rest of the car has to be uprated - buts thats just money as it can be done wheras quite a few engines simply cant cope with that power or even get there.

 

[carnutter]

one advantage, i think, of the high rpm engine is maybe the lower maximum torque throughout the rev range increases longetivity of the drivetain and maybe the engine it self.

The opposite might be true!

A much higher redline means engine and drive train components spin a lot faster and are under more duress, with increased wear and tear.

A typical example is that most Honda Type R cars do not come with an automatic transmission. Part of this is due to the Type R philosophy and another part is working out how to make a conventional auto last at 9,000rpm!

The lower torque argument is probably better expressed in terms of better throttle control and predictable torque delivery - a handy thing when planting during cornering without having to worry about the light switch power delivery of some turbo engines.

 

[SLEEPER]

"A typical example is that most Honda Type R cars do not come with an automatic transmission. Part of this is due to the Type R philosophy and another part is working out how to make a conventional auto last at 9,000rpm! "


Or could it be simply that anyone who wants a type r wants a manual not an auto........................:toung: