Torque Cars

R34GTR for response

Discussion in 'Engine questions' started by Nismo1, 30 June 2014.

  1. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    Hi Guys
    Just registered and looking around for posts on building torquey cars

    I have an R34GTR , it is modified to 346AWKW and tuned for response.
    I am now going to have the RB30/Nitto 3.2 Stroker Kit built with some head work.
    This is being built also for response and will be around 400AWKW+.

    As it is a AWD and with the torque the stroker will add , how the gearbox is going to like the extra twist it is going to get from this very torquey set up is my only concern.

    Look forward to hearing from members

    Pete
     
  2. T9 man

    T9 man TC Pro Founder Moderator

    Messages:
    20,370
    From:
    London, UK
    Car:
    Saab 9-3SS T9
    Greetings and a Warm Welcome to our TorqueCars Forum my Friend!

    Good to have you along with us :)

    We have a specialist GTR and Stagea member on here called: Sleeper. I am sure he will able to advise you further. Plus we have members called: Gummy and Aerial Andy944 who I also believe have modified this model, so advice from them will be good too.
     
  3. TCJBOLDIE

    TCJBOLDIE Torque King

    Messages:
    4,776
    From:
    Brisbane
    Car:
    JB Starion
    How you intend to use / abuse it will also be a factor re longevity or otherwise.
     
  4. Aerial Andy944

    Aerial Andy944 The Torque Meister

    Messages:
    1,705
    From:
    Sunny South Somerset UK
    Car:
    VW Golf GT TDi 200
    Hi and welcome to TC
    JEALOUS I am a lot. RB30 is a serious bit of kit.
    The 6 speed box in the '34 is the best and strongest box they built from all the GTRs. I would of thought it would be ok. Clutch will need uprating though obviously.
    Sleeper is the guy to talk to really on here about big power GTRs but I can ask some guys who have this setup on other forums.
    look forward to seeing some pics and a project thread on here maybe
     
  5. SLEEPER

    SLEEPER Pro Tuner

    Messages:
    2,782
    You are quite correct that torque is the killer for RB gearboxes (and clutches) but If you are measuring torque it is measured in ft lbs. not kw.
    KW is outright power (like bhp) so it is the ft lbs figure we would need .

    Having said that the getrag box should be strong enough for what you have with some margin to spare .That of course is providing the box isnt worn or tired..
    You do need to look at the clutch set up as well because it can determine the extent the gearbox is stressed..
    On thta point you will really need a triple plate , carbon is best (IMHO) although not cheap . I assume however that this shouldnt be a problem because nitto conversions are not cheap either :bigsmile:

    I have a step two 2.8 HKS motor tuned for low end grunt not power.
    As a comparison it kicks out a tad over 500ft lbs at just under 4000rpm with more at higher revs and my box is fine and it isnt a getrag although it is the dual syncro one.
    Mind you I have not tried it up the strip with launch control yet ::p
     
  6. turbonutter69

    turbonutter69 TC ModFather Moderator

    Messages:
    18,968
    From:
    Alone in the dark.
    Car:
    Insignia SRI.
    Hello and Welcome to TorqueCars.:bigsmile:
    Hope you enjoy your time with us.
     
  7. gummy

    gummy Torque Master

    Messages:
    976
    From:
    england heathfield
    Car:
    skyline r34 gtt
    hello and welcome to the forum, tbh i dont know much about tunning i have a 34,gtt which kicks out 320 bhp,although not a big amount,the car copes well i dont know how much power you could gain before problems occur,however good luck with you project and please keep us posted on progress
     
  8. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    Thanks for your replies.
    I am not a boy racer, old bloke that likes plenty of grunt :love:
    I am still using AWKW as a power reference but the turbo, exhaust and cams etc were changed to get down low Torque and we tuned it for response as best we could and it is a different car to drive now but I want "more response:amazed:"
    I am still waiting on a couple of quotes that seem to be taking forever so I guess I will have to be patient, not very good at that.:(
    I am thinking of going down to a Coppermix Twin C Spec clutch but waiting for some suggestions from the work shops, but one of the shops said the OS Quad would be OK if I am not trying to kill the box bashing the crap out of it. Who knows where hard and bashing starts from for different parts?
    Maybe when the motor is out would be the smart time to take the Quad clutch out and change it, only has 3000Klms on it and install something needed to help the box.
    Also some blokes have recommended putting a Quaife Front Diff in to help with torque steer and they say it is a safer mod and I will have that put in with the build.

    I am not up on car talk but love them:love:
     
  9. Aerial Andy944

    Aerial Andy944 The Torque Meister

    Messages:
    1,705
    From:
    Sunny South Somerset UK
    Car:
    VW Golf GT TDi 200
    First time I've heard of torque steer on a GTR?? I'll have to leave that question to Sleeper also as I never experienced it on mine
     
  10. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    Hi Andy

    Well that makes 2 of us,haha:confused:

    Apparently when you go to/past a certain power/torque level it "can" affect the steering.

    I do not know to what degree but it happens. Google it.

    I have enough trouble without the power giving me a problem, my car follows the road as if it is on train tracks, if you do not have your mind on the job:blink: But the faster I go the less it happens??? So :D
    Getting new rims soon, so getting an alignment and balance , this might help, never driven an AWD before, so ??????????
     
  11. T9 man

    T9 man TC Pro Founder Moderator

    Messages:
    20,370
    From:
    London, UK
    Car:
    Saab 9-3SS T9

    Same here :confused:

    Actually it might be wise to retract that statement about torque steer on a GTR, Nissan might have a few ninjas on route to sort us out ;)
     
    Last edited: 9 July 2014
  12. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    It was something a bloke said to me, he also said the Quaife front diff helps going hard around bends as it stops the back swinging out and give you more grip on the front wheels dragging you through the corner with more control.
    Don't shoot the messenger:embarrest: maybe I misunderstood what the bloke was saying?
    BUT if the Quaife Front diff helps corner control, I am up for it even if there is no such thing as torque steer in the R34:toung:
    Torque steering
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Torque steering is the influence of engine torque on the steering, especially in front-wheel drive vehicles with transversely mounted engines. For example, during heavy acceleration the steering may pull to one side, which may be disturbing to the driver. The effect is manifested either as a tugging sensation in the steering wheel, or a veering of the vehicle from the intended path. Torque steer is directly related to differences in the forces in the contact patches of the left and right drive wheels. The effect becomes more evident when high torques are applied to the drive wheels either because of low transmission gearing, high engine torque, or some combination of the two. Torque steering is distinct from steering kickback.
     
  13. T9 man

    T9 man TC Pro Founder Moderator

    Messages:
    20,370
    From:
    London, UK
    Car:
    Saab 9-3SS T9

    :lol: Don't worry about it buddy and nothing against you in the slightest. :)
     
  14. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    haha , no problems , I have a thick hide :lol:
    I am NOT a car bloke as such, and I copped heaps on SAU for some of the dumb ass things I said but found a few blokes that were really helpful and still are.
    I just found revving up all over the place and going nowhere was a pain, so I made some changes, got some response going and the car is much better DD but not good enough , so I am doing the 3.2 stroker build and getting as much info as I can because if I can make the changes while the motors out it will save $$$s later and I can flog the leftovers as most of the mods coming out have only done 3000Klms , I had to run in the last 1000Klms.
    It is all a learning curve and some blokes forget when they knew nothing:p
     
  15. SLEEPER

    SLEEPER Pro Tuner

    Messages:
    2,782
    Just to clarify everything in the UK is bhp and kw in oz . Tourque is however always torque and will always be king (for me anyway)

    anyway..........................

    By coincidence I do have a quaife ATE diff in the front. :bigsmile:

    They are helical and are certainly the best diff around unless you have an unlimited budget.

    GTRs dont usually suffer from "torquesteer" but the quaife diff seems to actively . pull the car around corners rather than the car just going into a bend

    It cant do this of course as it is awd and not FWD but the that is the best way of describing the improvement. If you fit a quaife the only diff changing you will be doing is putting one in the rear as well (on shopping list)

    You can also fit a TSC unit which is plug and play and repaces the g sensor box . This will give you control of the front rear split . If you get a digital Skylab TSC it can also set the way it reacts to under/oversteer (yes got one fitted and it does work)

    Honestly if you are going 3.2 with mods I doubt a coppermix will be that happy . I would definately look at the carbon clutches as they are really easy on the pedal and dont slip (as long as you get the right one)

    PS .........I am also far from a spring chickem
     
    Last edited: 9 July 2014
    Nismo1 likes this.
  16. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    Hi Sleeper, as I said I am new to most of this and find it hard to explain exactly what I mean, I think you just did.
    I always thought of HP & KW as Dyno talk and R3 cars that have an extra 100HP on the Dyno will struggle to beat the same model that has 100HP less that is built and tuned for Torque, I think of it as Torque /response.
    I found that my car is more linear now than when I had the T78-33 D on it, when it finally kicked in at 5.5k your head would fall off. Launching I had to go to about 8k to get it started but would still lag a bit and it was 339AWKW , not a lot but strong and a pig as a DD.
    But my car now has no lag and it is 345AWKW , only 6AWKW difference since I added the PT6262, Poncams B and new exhaust , 6k ish and off it goes, bit of spin, bites and off, it also keeps going.
    when I got the car back from the mods I launch it at 8k ish to see how it was different, it went nuts, too much spin/ fishtail and wasted response , found that 6.5k was the way to go if I wanted the best result.
    I have a Nismo 2-way LSD in the back and I am putting the Quaife front diff on.
    The shop said maybe I should go to a Twin Plate GTR R34 Clutch , going to look into them.
    I think with the 3.2 build that will be more than enough for a DD, always fun to have it there for play time:amazed:
    Sleeper I am an oldie but only on the outside:p and this is my daily ride , well I do have a " Dec 02" 350GT Skyline, Jap Import, I only mod was the APS Twin Turbo System and it goes pretty good as it had torque to start with. The R34GTR was gutless down low in comparison, I know it is a different, new age V6 motor, but I am talking about sitting in it driving, not Dyno driving, it is only 253 WKW but with the magic difference, TORQUE RESPONSE , just gotta love it:love::love::love::love::love:
     
  17. SLEEPER

    SLEEPER Pro Tuner

    Messages:
    2,782
    Mine is completely tuned for response,. I have twin -5s turbos which produce serious torque (500 ft lbds) at around 4000rpm
    So far im only up to 5000 rpm on launching but that is on boost as the link g4 ecu has proper launch control
     
  18. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    Sounds like it goes, what is 500Ft Lbs in KW, I would think you would take off pretty good on 5k rpm, I am expecting to be going hard on 5.5k after the stroker build and cannot imagine doing it at much over 6k I do not think you would get any real benefit . I am talking street set up, not drag or track.

    The twins would be fun, you would be on full boost or close at about 4K I would think.

    With the torque I think I expect to have I should be full boost at 4k ish.
    Even now my turbo is starting to push air before 3k, and the response starts from 3.5k and full on at 5k ish and it goes to my limiter at around 9k.
    I have to qualify these guesstimations by saying, I hope it happens:lol: because I do not really know:confused: but going on the progress my response has improved with the modifications I have made so far, I think it will be close :amazed:
     
  19. SLEEPER

    SLEEPER Pro Tuner

    Messages:
    2,782
    Torquesteer
    When you are in a straight line the driven wheels point in the same direction as the car is going so everything is fine
    When you go around a bend if you pick a single second the wheels which are being driven are actually pointing more straight on and trying to take the car away from the bend .. The more power the more this is so.
    Without any lsd the power is the same to each wheel so the car will try to go straight on. An lsd theoretically solves it by supplying more power to one wheel so the car wants to drive in an arc ( round the bend )
    More power ,higher speed or a sharper bend all make things worse and lsds can only do so much. The better ones just do more.
    A tsc can alter the signals to the awd ecu and thus control the split ( both f to r and l to . I think some newer fwd cars like the top ford focus have. a system that does this . The 34 v spevs have this. "Activediff" on the rear not sure about the normal 34gtrs
     
  20. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    My R34 wants to follow dips and such , maybe the slightly larger wheels with 255x40x18" tyres have something to do with this but it can be very sharp at times , like being in a train but you do not want to go there.

    I am getting new rims soon and will be getting an alignment and balance , maybe this will help ?
     
  21. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    Put the Advan RS-Ds on, look good and the best thing is the alignment sorted the steering out, thought it would.
    Going to use the Advan Neova AD08R tyres to get more traction

    Have all of the parts in now and ready for the build, some head work will be done, but not sure how much will be needed but not doing a full race job.

    There are other mods to help this build , this is what I am using and have bought, too late to change now,haha

    Quaife front Diff , (have the Nismo 2-way LSD on the back)
    Nismo Coppermix twin Comp Spec clutch ( have mates using these on the road/ track with more torque than I will have and love them)
    Nitto 3.2 Stroker Kit
    RB30 Block ( already have a 9Lt sump conversion)
    Custom 260 10.8 cams, springs and retainers
    Already have the modern Haltech Platinum R34GTR ECU ,HKS 6 EVO Boost Controller , Walbro 460lph fuel pump and the fuel will be upgraded if need as a DD
    So I will give all of the results when it is done and run in:bigsmile:
     
  22. T9 man

    T9 man TC Pro Founder Moderator

    Messages:
    20,370
    From:
    London, UK
    Car:
    Saab 9-3SS T9
    That all sounds marvellous buddy, looking forward to seeing the end results :)
     
  23. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    thanks, will see how it all turns out, it will be going in for the build in about 3 weeks, that will feel like 3 years.

    On the Attach files, shouldn't it have a box to tick so the photo gets attached?
     

    Attached Files:

  24. SLEEPER

    SLEEPER Pro Tuner

    Messages:
    2,782
    so what turbo set up do you have ?
     
  25. Nismo1

    Nismo1 Tuner

    Messages:
    58
    From:
    Australia Forster
    Car:
    R34GTR
    I am still going to use the new PT6262 I recently put on, he may put a larger back housing on but he will see how it goes first.
    I am replacing the Poncams B 260 9.15 with some custom 260 10.8s , some blokes I know have put these on similar setups and are more than happy with the result.
    I might be getting a couple of plates put in the Trannie to put more power to the front wheels and make it a more 50/50 drive, well that is how it was explained to me, but it would not be the first time I have stuffed the translation up:p:embarrest:
    I will go to my PC and put the Dyno as it was with the T78-33D on and the last dyno graph when I changed the turbo and the Cams, well try:embarrest:
     

    Attached Files:

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