How to make a 10 second car

thexav

Pro Tuner
Staff member
Points
407
Car
2002 Clio 172
What would the requirements be for a drag car that can put in a sub 10 second quarter mile run.

I guess there is a minimum power to weight ratio but what about tyres, transmission and other components? How big a deal is it to build a 10 second drag car? How would you make a 10 second drag car?
 
Thanks, T9 :)

A few parameters need to be set first, otherwise the possibilities are endless:

Strip only or road legal.
Slicks or road tyres
Weight of car
FWD, RWD or AWD
Auto or Manual
Number of gears
Final Drive ratio

Fill these in, xavier, and I will have a go.
 
Road legal, road tyres RWD manual 6 gears

Weight of car will be movable but is probably best fixed at 1200kgs.

I Don't know anything about final drive ratio I was just wondering what sort of power you'd need to get a 10 second car.

How much of a difference does tyres and transmission type make?
 
My simulation software has over 300 variables, so this can only be an approximation.

Gearbox and final drive ratios can make a big difference if they don't allow the engine to be kept in the power band at all times (this is VERY important).

I have assumed a static coefficient of friction of 1, as this is what a reasonable road tyre will achieve on a good surface. Actual date is very difficult, if not impossible, to get from tyre manufacturers.


Data supplied:
Weight 1200kg
RWD

Other assumptions:

50/50 weight distibution
245mm wide rear tyres
25sq foot frontal area
Drag coefficient of .36
5" ground clearance
Gear ratios of 1.908, 1.525, 1.282, 1.085, 0.922, 0.786 (mine)
Final drive 3.85 (mine)
Max BHP at 6250 with gearchange at 6500
Max lb/ft at 5200
Redline 7500
Turbocharged
Runs at 300ft altitude (Santa Pod) under English weather conditions (dry but humid)


In order to achieve a 10 second 1/4 mile run (as stated in the thread title) you will need around 750bhp and 650ft/lbs (10.98 at 137mph) in a car weighing this much.

I stress, before I get taken apart with real data, that this is very rough as too many variables are unknown. For example, raising the tyre friction from 1 to 1.25 (about the best you will get with road tyres on a sticky track) ET drops to 10.72. Lose 240lbs and you are into the low 10s (10.48/140).

In order to achieve sub-10 second runs in a car this heavy, as asked in the post :), you will need a big hike in power, up to the order of 1100bhp and 1000lb/ft.

There is also a fair amount of wheelspin in the lower gears, so some sort of launch control would see an improvement.

The prgramme tends to be a little pessimistic, so you should be able to improve on these figures.

Gear ratios are important. I have used mine here, but these have been optimised for my power data so will not be ideal for a different car.

In order to get a more accurate result, all of the variables need to be known, but this gives you an idea of what is required.

If anyone is interested and can supply comprehensive car data I will run the program for you. I will need as a minimum:

Displacement and location of engine
RWD, FWD or AWD
NA, super or turbocharged (1 or 2)
Horsepower at RPM
Torque at RPM
Redline
Compression ratio
Gearbox type and ratios
Final drive ratio
Kerb weight
Weight on front wheels
Wheelbase
Tyre section width
Driven wheel(s) diameter(s)
Tyre profile
Tyre make and model
Coefficient of drag (not too important)
Frontal area
Overall height
Overall width
Ground clearance
Weight of driver - be honest :)
Weight of fuel when doing run
If you have a power readout that would be useful

This is in no way a comprehensive list but will get us in the right ball park. If you already have some runs under your belt it will be interesting to see how close I can get :) I have tested it using magazine data for various standard cars and it is pretty accurate. I ran it using the Elan data when the car last worked as was within .16 of a second. The difference could have been due to me not having a clue how to launch :)
 
Last edited:
Excellent OG
I will try to get the questions answered and pmd to you- will be intersting to get your "forecasts" as i will be at the pod end of the month.

BTW is there a space where I can put muppett driver in rather than experienced drag artist
 
Excellent OG
I will try to get the questions answered and pmd to you- will be intersting to get your "forecasts" as i will be at the pod end of the month.

BTW is there a space where I can put muppett driver in rather than experienced drag artist


Actually, yes :)

The default shift time is 0.5 seconds. Just let me know your shift time and I will add it.
 
What would the requirements be for a drag car that can put in a sub 10 second quarter mile run.

A lot of money - lol!

Seriously, the general principles are more power, more traction, less weight, appropriate gearing, less drag, a drag auto with stall kit (allows more consistent runs), massive balls.
 
Wow, that is awesome OG to have a tool to calculate all of this for you.
I wish knew all of the specs right off just to see what it kicks out.
As for right now, I am content with my mid 12 second 5000lb brick.

Be nice to get into 10's, but its my daily driver and I tow with it every weekend.
I have to sacrifice speed for practicality.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow, that is awesome OG to have a tool to calculate all of this for you.
I wish knew all of the specs right off just to see what it kicks out.
As for right now, I am content with my mid 12 second 5000lb brick.

Be nice to get into 10's, but its my daily driver and I tow with it every weekend.
I have to sacrifice speed for practicality.


12 seconds in a car weighing as much as a small European country? That is pretty good, especially as it is a daily driver.

Say what you like, but the Yanks make bullet proof V8s, even if they have no idea how to get real power out of them :smile:
 
He will be even quicker once he works out how to keep the front wheels on the ground :)

Any engine and vehicle mod details?

I have a Chevy Blazer (1999), 4.3 litres of pulsating V6, but it isn't quite as quick as this one :)
 
Last edited:
I have one for ya:660hp@6100 rpm,632ft/lbs@4000rpm,5 spd tremec 1-1 4th gear,3:89 gear ratio,28x12tires. car weight with driver 3970 lbs. how fast should this go in the 1/4 mile???
 
I have one for ya:660hp@6100 rpm,632ft/lbs@4000rpm,5 spd tremec 1-1 4th gear,3:89 gear ratio,28x12tires. car weight with driver 3970 lbs. how fast should this go in the 1/4 mile???


Hi

Vehicle?
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th gearbox ratios
Road legal or slick tyres
Tyre profile
Wheel diameter
Ground clearance
Front to back weight distribution
Frontal area
Height
Width
Redline

This should produce a pretty good approximation.
 
Last edited:
1974 gto 1st=2.89 2snd=1.89 3thd=1.28 4th=1.0 both mickey thompson dot drag radial or slick i have them; ET street is P295/55R15 R2 compound 12" wide 27.8" dia 87circ
weight had it somewhere but wasn't far off equal.ground clearance around 6"' red line 62oo-6500 depending on next dyno hopefully next week. would have to put a tape on the car for width/height
 
Forgot to ask, power at wheels or flywheel?
Also, 5th gear ratio?
Engine size?
 
Last edited:
Right

This will be an approximation due to many unknown factors and variables:
Barometric pressure
Relative humidity
Elevation
Fuel quality and octane rating
Gear shift time (assumed 0.secs)
Coefficient of static friction of the tyres. This is set at 1 for good road tyres. The higher the number the better the grip. Unfortunately tyre manufactures are relucant to tell us this info, so I have guessed at 1.5 for your tyres. Altering this figure makes a big difference to the predicted time so I will give you a selction of figures with different values.
Coefficient of kinetic friction of the tyres. This is set at 85% of the above
Tyre expansion factor.
Driver experience
etc, etc

I don't have your car in the database, so have used a 2004 GTO as a base and added your data.

Co of static friction of 1 gives 12.21 @ 119mph
1.25 gives 12.05@119
1.5 gives 11.94/119

1.5 also gives:
0-60mph 3.56secs
0-100mph 8.16
60ft time - 1.82
660ft 7.72

Top speed - 197mph! but this will take 6.7 miles and 138 secs.

As we all know, in drag racing, it is all in the start which makes predictions difficult, but low 12s high 11s seem possible.

Is this anywhere near?
 
Don't know but maybe this will help; best run with old 500 hp engine was a 12.12 timeslip but can't find it so here is another and don't laugh @ reaction time which is.911 60ft@ 1.701 ,330ft@4.986, 660@7.844, mph1@87.07, 990@10.211, 1320@12.328, mph@110.70. so going need a lot help setting up car LOl
 
Putting 500bhp in gives a mid 12, meaning I am running around 0.5sec slow so you should be aiming for a mid 11 1/4

When going for a time rather than a win, ignore reaction time as it doesn't make any difference to the ET. Leave when you are ready.
 
What software were you using to get the timings from OG?

I would be interested to find out what mine would come out at too.
 
Nice one OG. Is the pro racing one better then would you say?
I will try and get all the figures you need and see what it comes out at later if thats ok?
 
Compared to my version, yes. Compared to the latest version of Cartest2000, not much in it.

Cartest 2000 can be sent via email so you get it instantly and they also do a an online version. Drag Sim is only available on a CD.

Send me the data and I will have a play :)
 
Ok here is mine.
Toyota Supra Single Turbo

Displacement and location of engine - 3 Litre Engine at front
RWD, FWD or AWD - RWD
NA, super or turbocharged (1 or 2) - Turbo GT35r dbb
Horsepower at RPM - 525 at 4800rpm
Torque at RPM - 498
Redline - 7000
Compression ratio - ?
Gearbox type and ratios - Getrag V160 6 Speed. 1)3.827 2)2.360 3)1.685 4)1.312 5)1.000 6)0.793
Final drive ratio - 3.266
Kerb weight - 1500kg
Weight on front wheels - ?
Wheelbase - 2,550mm
Tyre section width - ?
Driven wheel(s) diameter(s) - 18"
Tyre profile - 40
Tyre make and model - Toyo R888
Coefficient of drag (not too important) - ?
Frontal area - ?
Overall height - 1,265mm
Overall width - 1,811mm
Ground clearance - 80mm
Weight of driver - be honest - 75kg
Weight of fuel when doing run ?

Ok I think that is everything. Anything with a question mark I am unsure of.
Let me know if you need to know anything else. Will be turning up the boost to 1.8 bar in the next few weeks once I have the new MAP sensor installed. Its currently running at 1.3bar so hopefully will get around the 600bhp mark.

Cheers
 
I'm itching to get my Datsun 240z into the 10's without doing too much more to it but its looking harder than I thought. I ran a couple of back to back 11.2's at the end of last year and have struggled to get lower than 11.4 this year, although I run a 11.5 at north weald last month. Car was not running well when I did the 11.2's with terminals of 131 and 124mph. Cured the misfire problem with a new set of plugs and smaller gaps. Added a full cage and 44kg of weight over the winter so that wont help. Car is a daily driver on track based suspension with R888's. 1jz engine with the only mod being cams (standard ecu, injectors, turbo's, etc). Weight is 1284kg and I cross the line in 4th @ 131mph, 6800rpm.

Am I pushing it thinking I'll see sub 11 or is it in theory possible. Nearly forgot, best 60' of 1.86s but 1.95 is the norm.
 
Hopefully john1jz, old-git will see your post and be able to shed some light and what is possible for your car.
There is a chart that OG has that takes into account a number of factors about the car then gives a projected time etc for the 1/4 mile. :)
 
Change the rear 888's for drag slicks /radials and you should be able to lower the ET's
If you have neg camber on the rear that won't help so I suggest if you have and can set the rear to sat 1deg pos camber as that will/should give better traction as the tyre will be closer to a 90 deg angle to the track when the car squats on launch.

I am not a drag racer but just thinking logically
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the advice. I was running zero camber but since changing to uprated cv's/axles, which happen to be a bit longer, I don't have enough adjustment on the top camber plates to give me zero again. It probably starts around 1deg and gets a little worse on launch. The skid pattern on a test rolling burnout looks even though. I would like to go slicks but funds just wont stretch that far.
 
Thanks for the advice. I was running zero camber but since changing to uprated cv's/axles, which happen to be a bit longer, I don't have enough adjustment on the top camber plates to give me zero again. It probably starts around 1deg and gets a little worse on launch. The skid pattern on a test rolling burnout looks even though. I would like to go slicks but funds just wont stretch that far.

John I know the feeling re budget .
The faster you can go is governed by the depth of your pockets.:sad2: :bigsmile:

PS good motor choice in the Z
 
Last edited:
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
SLEEPER 6 second standing quarter with 200mph+ from a Nissan Drag Racing 7

Similar threads


Please watch this on my YouTube channel & Subscribe.


Back
Top